Natallia Radzina: They Can Send Belarusian Military To Ukraine Through Russia

• 11.01.2023, 16:13

The Kremlin wants to use Lukashenka's army in a new offensive.

What's behind the law on property seizure from Belarusians? How many Russian soldiers are in Belarus? Will there be a second attack on Kyiv? What Lukashenka is suffering from?

The "FREEДОМ" Ukrainian TV Channel talked about this with Natallia Radzina, the editor-in-chief of the Charter97.org website.

— Belarusian news publishers write that now they can seize not only real estate in Belarus, but also money, shares, securities, vehicles, and so on. The list is huge. By the way, this course of action is common among Russian occupiers and it is familiar to all Ukrainians. They have been taking away housing in the temporarily occupied territories since 2014. Last year, it came to toilet bowls and house equipment, which, by the way, they were sending home through Belarus. It seems that Lukashenka was inspired by this experience. What do you think?

— Of course, this is a robbery and there is no other way to call it. This is done with one goal - to intimidate people even more. Including those who emigrated from the country and today continue active social and political activities. Thus, people are intimidated and they are trying to silence them.

It is necessary to understand that the authorities are afraid of calls from Belarusians for strengthening the sanctions against the dictatorship. So the authorities are trying to shut their mouths. Unfortunately, some are resisting. I know a sufficient number of people who, because of this, have become silent, scared, afraid to give interviews, express their opinions and condemn the regime publicly, but I urge Belarusians not to follow this.

The regime is illegitimate. All these attempts to confiscate and seize property are illegal. All the property that was taken from people in such a gangster way will be returned with the change of power in Belarus.

— Let's discuss Lukashenka's actions a bit more. He also signed a law that allows the deprivation of citizenship of people convicted under 'extremist' criminal articles and who are abroad. It is even known that there are some trials in absentia, and the Belarusian Investigative Committee has launched a special Telegram channel for publishing the names of these people. So, is this the same intimidation you are talking about?

— Yes, this is a scare tactic, which shows the fear and impotence of the authorities. They are trying to influence people in any possible way, to deprive them of their citizenship, but it was not Lukashenka who gave me citizenship and he has no power to take it away.

The people by and large have little to lose in this case. You can always legalize in the host country, ask for political asylum and get temporary documents. Of course, when the situation changes, all people who have been illegally deprived of their citizenship will receive it back.

— At the same time, just the other day, on Christmas Day, Lukashenka said that it was time for the authorities to ‘meet people's needs’ toward those who left Belarus after the 2020 protests. After all these statements, it seems that he is really suffering from a split mind. After all, the statements contradict one another.

— One can say that he is a schizophrenic, however, he is just a hypocritical creature and you should not believe a single word of his. He uses Orwellian vocabulary. When he talks about peace, you need to understand that he is talking about war.

— If we talk about hypocrisy and lies, then Lukashenka said that he wants peace for the Belarusians. At the same time, we can see that the country has become a large military training ground. Military 'exercises' have been extended. They are conducting joint tactical 'exercises' with Russia. Military equipment and Russian troops are coming to the country. Could you please tell me how many Russian soldiers are in the country?

— As I've always said, there are many more Russian troops in Belarus than the officially announced nine thousand. The Belarusian militaries are talking about it, and we know that new Russian military transport aircraft arrived before the New Year. Their number has increased. Just yesterday, information came that on January 7, 11,000 Russian troops and military equipment arrived in Mahiliou.

— Eleven thousand?

— Yes. We can say that there are tens of thousands of Russian troops in Belarus today.

— The Belarusian Haiun Monitoring Group wrote that Russian soldiers were noticed in the cities and at railway stations. Are they living somewhere in the cities or do they just get off the trains on their way to certain points?

— Basically, they are located at the Belarusian military training grounds. Almost all of them. Moreover, we received information that pioneer camps and rural schools were refurbished into barracks. They are accommodated somewhere away from big cities, including in rural areas, so their exact number and their large increase are not clear. The deployment of the Russian troops is hidden.

By the way, speaking about the exercises. A few days ago, we received information that previously unannounced joint exercises of several units of the Special Operations Forces and Russian troops are taking place at the Abuz-Liasnouski. It is, according to our information, a training ground near Baranavichy and the location of a military base and training ground. The goals and objectives of these exercises, as well as their duration, are classified.

— Natallia, it’s probably worth using the information of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The day before, the United States also stated that they do not see the threat of an offensive by troops from Belarus, but the Ukrainians are ready for this. Tell me please, what information do you receive from the Belarusian military? What do they know?

— This is exact information: there will be an attack on Ukraine. It is possible both from the territory of Belarus and from the territory of Russia. Now the Belarusian militaries are very concerned about the fact that they can be sent to Russia and further to Donbasa, in particular, to carry out an offensive in the Zaporizhzhia region, starting from Huliaipole and further north towards Pavlodar. This is the latest info. Of course, they are very worried, they do not want to participate in this war, but they say that now it seems that such a scenario is inevitable.

Moreover, there is information that distraction operations will continue in Belarus, including the use of landing forces on the territory of Ukraine. They can land at a nuclear power plant. I won’t say the exact places, maybe the Chornobyl or Rivne nuclear power plants. They will try to divert the attention of the Armed Forces of Ukraine by distracting their forces to the Belarusian-Ukrainian border.

— If the Belarusian military men are sent, as you said, to the Donbas, what will be their actions? They do not want to, but there will be an order, and then what ...

— The information is as follows: they say that they will not participate directly in offensive operations. Apparently, the Kremlin is well aware that Belarusian military personnel are not the best fighters. It is said that they can go to the second echelon and operate already in the occupied territories. In all four Ukrainian regions captured by Russia.

— In the area of Bakhmut, Soledar, fierce battles have been going on for several months. Cities are stormed by the "Wagnerites", the mobilized are thrown to the slaughter. Hundreds are dying and more are wounded. In the temporarily occupied cities, hospitals are now overflowing with those who managed to survive. Tell me, are the wounded being taken to Belarus now, are they being treated there?

— We know that there are Russian servicemen in Belarusian hospitals. We do not yet have exact information that they are wounded and whether they are being taken from the fronts. I think it's quite likely though.

— Since you've mentioned the "Wagnerites", it is known that Prigozhin traveled around dozens of Russian prisons to recruit prisoners. Was there a recruitment of Belarusian prisoners? Did Lukashenka offer such an option?

— There is information from certain sources that this issue was discussed at the last meeting between Putin and Lukashenka, and in the coming months, recruiting centers for Wagner PMCs should open in Belarus. They will work openly, and previously acted through intermediaries. There is also information that prisoners will be recruited in Belarusian prisons.

— Let's discuss the statement of the Defense Intelligence of Ukraine. The other day it became known that from mid-January there will be another wave of mobilization in Russia. A larger one, they want to summon 500 thousand people. In September, when there was a hunt for 300 thousand, there were queues of deserters from Russia who wanted to escape. It is known that some of them settled in Belarus.

Tell us what is known about the people who left today. Was Belarus a transit country for them, or the country that gave them shelter and they continue to live there?

— Indeed, some of the Russians left for Belarus during the first wave of mobilization, but we know that they were detained, searched for, and still handed summons. I think that their presence on the territory of Belarus was hardly long. I do not advise people who really want to avoid mobilization to go to Belarus, it is better to run further to the West.

— Lukashenka often states that Belarus and Russia are "allied states". It turns out that salvation is not to be found there.

— Definitely, there is no salvation in Belarus. It can be found even in Kazakhstan, which is a relative ally of Russia. In any case, it is included in all Eurasian structures. I know that many went there and then tried to move further. Armenia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Georgia — these countries are much more loyal to those fleeing mobilization in Russia.

— Lukashenka often talks about the "union state. He mentioned it again the day before. He said that he wanted a new modern media holding of Russia and Belarus to be created in the next six months. After all, this is the creation of another army of propagandists, who are one of the main weapons of the Kremlin, into which millions are being pumped. What do you think of it?

They understand that their propaganda does not work. They see the disappointment of the Russians in the war. Not to mention the fact that the propaganda could not influence Belarusians. There is no expected effect. The vast majority of Belarusians are against the war. Apparently, that's why they want to intensify this propaganda, but people do not believe the false TV. I think it's money down the drain.

— The creation of a media holding is a kind of marker that Belarus is being absorbed by Russia.

— Obviously it's happening. The Lukashenka regime is absolutely dependent on Russia in every respect. Starting from politics and military cooperation, ending with the economy.

As for the absorption, of course, if Putin wants to absorb Belarus, he can do it at any time. Lukashenka will not interfere with him in any way, but Belarusians will fight for their independence.

Although, again, I do not think that Lukashenka needs this. I perceive their regimes as those of Hitler and Mussolini. Two allied fascist regimes that support each other, but still they are separate dictatorships.

— While Lukashenka dreams of such a media holding, repressions and detentions continue in Belarus. The day before, trials began against the employees of the portal tut.by. How would you comment on all these events?

— How can you comment here? These are journalists who suffered for their work and activities. Of course they must be released. There has always been terror against journalists in Belarus. In 2020, the remnants of independent media were finished off. Even the most cautious ones, like tut.by.

Today, independent media can work for Belarus only from abroad. Dozens of Belarusian journalists and bloggers continue to be in prisons, which also need to be remembered. It was the bloggers who contributed to the Belarusian revolution. They did a lot to make the massive protests that we saw in 2020 happen.

It is necessary to demand and continue to impose sanctions against the dictatorship until all political prisoners in Belarus are released.

— I want to talk to you more about the regime change. Often in the Belarusian media there are reports about Lukashenka's state of health. According to some sources, Lukashenka is trying in every possible way to stop this information about his health, which does not improve against the background of stress and other things. There have even been several cases of hospitalization. What illness can he be suffering from? How do you feel about this information in general?

— Naturally, I keep track of this information. As far as I understand, there is no talk of anything fatal now. He has problems with his joints, his spine, his cardiovascular system is failing, but of course, it’s not worth talking about Lukashenka’s sudden death in the near future.

We need to think about how to fight this regime, as well as the Putin regime, and how to defeat them.

— Then we should probably return to the beginning of our conversation. You said that Belarusians should not be silent and afraid of the actions of the Lukashenka regime. After all, someday it will end and everything will be as it should be.

— Of course!